Dragon Universe Wiki talk:Music policy
Permanent block? Why resort to a permanent block on the second offense? Isn't that too much? Can't we just strip the offender of his or her userpage privileges (such as deleting the user page and protecting it) rather than go to the extreme? 05:39, May 29, 2015 (UTC) : The only reason I go to that extreme is because music can be abused rather easily. There are a lot of songs we don't want floating around our wiki, especially on the user pages. From my experiences, the users have fallen into two camps when it comes to music templates: those who will obey, find a cool song for their userpage and leave it at that; and those who go to find the most offensive song on their playlist just because they can. In the case of the first group, they're not going to ever be a problem for us. In the case of the second group, though, they already know what they're linking is inappropriate so if they don't follow the first warning, chances are they won't adhere to any subsequent warnings either. That's just been my experience. What does everyone else think? ~ Ten Tailed Fox 02:55, May 30, 2015 (UTC) ::Again. 09:01, June 2, 2015 (UTC) :::Once again. 08:24, June 6, 2015 (UTC) :::: Might be best to message them, Windy. We make so many edits, this page tends to get drowned out. rr~ 16:21, June 6, 2015 (UTC) :::::I'm actually gonna agree with ten on this one. The fact that we're even using music templates is a big risk in and of itself. I love them, and they add a certain flare to pages. But if you go to a user's page, and they have the explicit version of say.....any rap song in existence, just to generalize....and we ask them to change it and they don't, then it's obvious they have no inclination to listen. Not only that, they would have known linking a song like that from the start would be bad. I'm not the world's best admin, but I do know how to deal with people who don't listen, or seem like trouble; you simply get rid of them from the wiki before they can make a bigger problem out of themselves. Being forceful is often the best approach. So a permanent block for the second offense of offensive music is a good idea in my opinion, because ignoring the first warning is an obvious sign of "I don't care what you have to say".--— Mina Țepeș 19:36, June 6, 2015 (UTC) ::::::Alright, that is a good point, because it is very frustrating to deal with users who decide not to listen to what others tell them (trust me, I have experience with those kind of people, and I've wanted to block them like crazy). Okay then. ::::::EDIT: Alright, how about this, on the first offense, we remove the explicit music and protect the userpage for a week, and issue a warning letting them know about the policy. After protection, if they still decide not to listen, then a permanent block. How about that? 19:49, June 6, 2015 (UTC) :::::::Anyone? 20:16, June 6, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::Your compromise is essentially the same, you simply removed the warning. I don't see an issue to it myself, it's how Bulbapedia would run things. Preventing the users from editing the userspace too much to keep them focused primarily on the mainspace. But yeah, issuing a warning, removing the song, and blocking them from their userpage for a week does sound like the ideal method to me. Though Ten's opinion remains to be posted.--— Mina Țepeș 20:20, June 6, 2015 (UTC) :Heh, didn't mean to remove the warning. Thought that was implied. 20:33, June 6, 2015 (UTC) ::99% of music uploaded to YouTube is illegally uploaded, excepting the 1% of legal uploads by the artists. You should not be embedding such things on pages at all, unless you want to get into legal issues with the music industry. Considering the lengths they're going to stop people listening to illegal tracks, you should just have a blanket ban on any music and simply don't attempt to condone it. ::I don't even know why this is a problem, nearly ALL wiki's on the internet do not permit music embeds or people to upload music. This policy should just be scrapped, anything relating to embedding youtube clips removed and common sense should be used. There's really no reason for it to be here, no other wiki does it, so why break the common sense of user experience? --Sajuuk talk | | Channel 21:51, June 8, 2015 (UTC) ::: That is absolutely, 100% false. Every single wiki I have participated on, save Narutopedia and Bleach Wiki, have allowed music in some way, shape, or form. Some of them I have been a member of since 2008, when I first joined Wikia, and there isn't a legal issue to be spoke of. Plenty of wikis use music to enhance their articles, especially where music plays a big role: the Call of Duty Wiki, the Halo Wiki, Wookiepeida, the Bleach Fan Fiction Wiki, the Naruto Fanon Wiki, so on and so forth. Interestingly enough, it wasn't that long ago that Wikia themselves was trying to get Narutopedia to add music/video media to the site. ::: The fact is that, when a reader is looking up a song, they're usually looking for two things: lyrics or the song itself. We provide them with both, sparing them the search. The fact is that a lot of artists nowadays are creating Vevo Youtube channels and uploading the music there themselves (Disturbed, which does music for the Dragon Ball animated movies, is one such example), but even those that don't have little bearing here on this wiki. The legal issues, should any rise, fall upon the uploader and those who download the songs: not those who add already-uploaded music to a wiki page. ::: The insinuation that somehow, because a wiki uses music, it is looked down upon is a matter of personal opinion because. On the wikis I've been apart of that use the music templates, it has been in high demand. Everyone of those sites I listed above are high traffic wikis, no matter what you think of them. Thousands of visitors everyday, dozens of users (hundreds in Wookiepedia's case), and no sign of stopping. This is a wiki matter and this is how we decided to cover musical content for the time being. ~ 22:03, June 8, 2015 (UTC) autoplay Can you please make it an offence to use autoplay and remove that feature from the templates? I absolutely damn well hate going on pages and having UNWANTED MUSIC playing. If I want to listen to music, I'll do so at my own choice, not through autoplay, especially as it's the scourge of the internet. In fact, wiki's who have autoplaying music are looked down on quite negatively, because it has zero place on wiki's. So yeah... --Sajuuk talk | | Channel 21:33, June 8, 2015 (UTC) :EDIT: I went ahead and just removed the Autoplay functionality. Whoever decided that it was a good idea to make that customisable clearly has no idea about user experience in that such music can be attributed to ads and will result in any interested people leaving the wiki on the spot. Before enabling such a horrific feature, consider other people and not just yourself. --Sajuuk talk | | Channel 21:51, June 8, 2015 (UTC) ::: That an interesting accusation considering that I am a member of many high traffic wikis that use autoplay music templates and have visited others who do the same - I listed a few above. Those wikis tend to have high influxes of users (more and more everyday) and an extremely high view count, so I'm not sure where you're getting those statistics, or whether it is just your personal opinion, but I'd urge you to consider speaking about matters with the community before disabling functions on your own. Each wiki is different, as are their users and readers. You shouldn't jump to any conclusions solely based on your own opinion, especially when the other users who contribute here don't seem to mind it, or our page view count is rising rapidly (which it is). ~ 22:08, June 8, 2015 (UTC) ::::Actually, that isn't just my own opinion: it's an opinion shared by many webmasters and experienced admins. Even people on Community Central loathe wiki's which force unwanted autoplaying tracks to be played. ::::But apparently you don't seem to care that much about what the majority thinks, considering the only people editing this place are you and two others. I thought this wiki wanted to be better than the supposed "fanfic" dragon ball wiki: clearly not, because the supposedly "fanfic" wiki provides a better UX, something you don't seem to be caring about. ::::Due to the autoplaying music your shoving at people, I won't be editing here any further. The opinions of someone who is more experienced in UX is apparently meaningless. --Sajuuk talk | | Channel 22:17, June 8, 2015 (UTC) ::::: What Community Central does and doesn't do isn't my concern; put plainly, I don't care. I've seen the cracker jack job the people there do and I can safely say that if they are the ones doing the "looking down", I have nothing to worry about. You've failed to address the fact that many huge, popular wikis use this feature and have no problems, and, in your haste to insult me and this place that the users here have worked hard on, have miscalculated the amount of users that edit here. In the month this wiki has existed, not counting you or the Bots, we have garnered a total of 14 users who edit here on a regular basis. Naturally, Windy, Aha, and I get more edits: we're sysops trying to get this place off the ground. But 14, not 2. That's a pretty large user pool for a month old wiki and so far, out of fourteen users (fifteen, counting yourself), you are the only one throwing a tantrum over a template. Combine that with the fact that the major wikis listed above use similar templates (or the exact same one) and maintain huge influxes of users, invalidates your point. You are welcome to come or go, your help has been appreciated, but do not ever undervalue what the users here have done again. Certainly not in the name of your bad temper. ~ 01:55, June 9, 2015 (UTC) :Honestly I am with Sajuuk, it seems juvenile and it is irritating to have that music Auto-playing. I am going to send a message to lactation and tentails about this. QuakingStar (talk) 10:06, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::'Lactation'? I can't tell if that was deliberate or an honest typo. Either way, don't do it again. Anyway, if the music is such a bother, I'll see what Ten can do in regards to a pause feature, since it now seems to be more than just one person who has a problem with autoplaying music.--— Mina Țepeș 10:08, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::It was an honest mistake, no worries. Also yes the auto-play is irritating. QuakingStar (talk) 10:10, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::::To be honest, I liked it as a feature, but again, if more than one person is complaining — and that is the case now — then the complaints are certainly worth taking into consideration.--— Mina Țepeș 10:11, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::::The player is hidden with the template. It would just be better if you made use of the proper syntax for embedding youtube videos on pages rather than a template. . --Sajuuk talk | | Channel 10:12, June 11, 2015 (UTC) Heh, what happened to, "I won't be editing here any further?" :P But yeah, I'll try to get the pause feature. 10:13, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :Decided to contribute to this one discussion. I sorted out the "F (song)" page, using the appropriate tags so now it's not going to autoplay for those who don't want it. And if you want to play it, it can be played like any other embedded video by hovering over it and clicking Play. Use the same format on other pages if you wish. :) --Sajuuk talk | | Channel 10:17, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::Personally, I think the use of the template over the article as opposed to the video is less gaudy when it comes down to it. The video itself takes up too much space, and simply looks out of place. The template is smaller, stays up in the corner and isn't an overall eyesore. Though that could simply be my opinion.--— Mina Țepeș 10:19, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::Eh... the video is a little large... I'm in favor of the pause feature all the way, though. 10:21, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::::Interesting. I never knew that about the tags... well it converts it into a video upload and then makes use of the File: inclusion. So I thumb'd it and made it smaller (250px). Should be less invasive now :) ::::Of course, if you want the player visible, just set "hide" in the parameters to 0 and also set "autoplay" to 0. You could always just hardcode this in the appropriate templates so it can't be changed by the end user. --Sajuuk talk | | Channel 10:23, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::::It's not even simply the size of the video. The presence of it on the page looks out of place to me; the template served it better. It remained more or less out of the way, and didn't clash with the overall article as well. I'm in favour of simply unhiding the template and enabling free pausing and unpausing since that was the issue, not a video.--— Mina Țepeș 10:23, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::::::@Sajuuk, yeah, I'll do that. ::::::EDIT: Aha beat me to it. 10:24, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::::::I've made it so the template is visible and autoplay is off. There should be less complaints all around this way, or at least I hope so. I'd rather not have music be the source of discord on the wiki.--— Mina Țepeș 10:26, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::@Aha, same. I don't want music to be a distraction. Hopefully everyone is happy. 10:27, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::Heh. Well, a quick search showed me that Template:MPC is what mainly controls the player. In that template, } controls autoplay. So I guess all you'd need to do is convert that to 0 and it'll never autoplay. And then you'd just need to remove the various parameters in Template:YoutubePlayer to prevent people hiding the player (likely setting the "hide" parameter in it to 0) or allowing autoplay (same there). --Sajuuk talk | | Channel 10:28, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::::I can't promise the same thing for my userpage or anyone else's userpage though. How the music is handled for those remains to be seen, but if this is the way we'll handle music from here on out, I assume it'll be mandatory that userpages follow suit. Kinda sucks, I liked my autoplay for my userpage, but there's no much that can be done in regards to that.--— Mina Țepeș 10:29, June 11, 2015 (UTC) Already put the pause feature on my userpage. I don't want to surprise users with music like that (especially those who are on their computers at night :P) 10:35, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::::Given my liking for douchebag humor, I might get a kick out of it (I've already shocked a few friends by linking them to my page) but I do suppose I ought to follow suit. But that is something for after I sleep.--— Mina Țepeș 10:37, June 11, 2015 (UTC)